If a man's reach does not exceed his grasp, what's a Heaven for? One of my dad's regular sayings.
I would only quibble with how I read you on justice. Justice was not conquered by Grace, Justice was satisfied fully through the unfathomable act of mercy which was the Incarnation.
Thanks for that. I guess my thoughts are that justice is a structure built on the foundation of grace. Justice, when it is right and good, is a way to be gracious, a mode of grace. But justice isn't an unconditional good. Justice can be a vehicle for vengeance or hatred just as much as it can be for grace and love. Justice remains itself regardless of the heart of the one who administers it. Justice is a line in the sand. Justice is a math problem, 'Is X greater than/equal to Y?'
Justice is like a pole vault bar. Whether you hit justice or you are below it you are a slave either way. But there is a whole world of freedom above the bar. God never hits the bar. He is never merely just, but always goes above the bar. I mean He gave the infinite in exchange for our finite selves right?
The Law is an addition to a preexisting Covenant. Which is really pretty strange. In one sense, God can dispense His goodness on whatever terms He wants. He doesn't owe us anything. But justice wasn't part of the terms that Adam or Abraham signed onto(for us). The Gospel is all about 'one way love', not that we love Him but that He loves us. The Scriptures present different pictures of what this means and how it works. They often talk about satisfaction or propitiation but they also talk about a simple erasure. The Ante-Nicene's even talk about the atonement as a payment made to Satan, a sort of ransom for his captives, which just goes to show that all of our thoughts and words fall far short. Thankfully, our hope is not in our understanding of the atonement or even more generally the Gospel itself. Our hope is rather in their reality and the person of Christ.
I see justice as akin to truthfullness and God cannot lie. He told Adam that he would die if he ate the forbidden fruit; Adam must die or God is a liar and unjust. We learn that the wages of sin is death. If God does not give us our wages, He is a liar and unjust. Those wages must be paid, Death must come. Mercy found a way to accept in His own son that death which was ours and fully satisfy justice, that God might be just, and not a liar, and still exercise grace and mercy. That is the Gospel; Mercy there was great, and Grace was free.
If a man's reach does not exceed his grasp, what's a Heaven for? One of my dad's regular sayings.
I would only quibble with how I read you on justice. Justice was not conquered by Grace, Justice was satisfied fully through the unfathomable act of mercy which was the Incarnation.
Blessings.
Thanks for that. I guess my thoughts are that justice is a structure built on the foundation of grace. Justice, when it is right and good, is a way to be gracious, a mode of grace. But justice isn't an unconditional good. Justice can be a vehicle for vengeance or hatred just as much as it can be for grace and love. Justice remains itself regardless of the heart of the one who administers it. Justice is a line in the sand. Justice is a math problem, 'Is X greater than/equal to Y?'
Justice is like a pole vault bar. Whether you hit justice or you are below it you are a slave either way. But there is a whole world of freedom above the bar. God never hits the bar. He is never merely just, but always goes above the bar. I mean He gave the infinite in exchange for our finite selves right?
The Law is an addition to a preexisting Covenant. Which is really pretty strange. In one sense, God can dispense His goodness on whatever terms He wants. He doesn't owe us anything. But justice wasn't part of the terms that Adam or Abraham signed onto(for us). The Gospel is all about 'one way love', not that we love Him but that He loves us. The Scriptures present different pictures of what this means and how it works. They often talk about satisfaction or propitiation but they also talk about a simple erasure. The Ante-Nicene's even talk about the atonement as a payment made to Satan, a sort of ransom for his captives, which just goes to show that all of our thoughts and words fall far short. Thankfully, our hope is not in our understanding of the atonement or even more generally the Gospel itself. Our hope is rather in their reality and the person of Christ.
I see justice as akin to truthfullness and God cannot lie. He told Adam that he would die if he ate the forbidden fruit; Adam must die or God is a liar and unjust. We learn that the wages of sin is death. If God does not give us our wages, He is a liar and unjust. Those wages must be paid, Death must come. Mercy found a way to accept in His own son that death which was ours and fully satisfy justice, that God might be just, and not a liar, and still exercise grace and mercy. That is the Gospel; Mercy there was great, and Grace was free.
Blessings